Salmond Challenges Brown To Work With Snp Administration (from The Herald Election Site)

Alex Salmond yesterday challenged Gordon Brown to work with an SNP government, if the Nationalist leader becomes First Minister after tomorrow's election.

The challenge followed a refusal by the Chancellor to say whether he would work with an SNP administration once, as expected, he becomes Prime Minister.

Mr Salmond said that if the government could talk to former violent adversaries in Northern Ireland, it should respect the democratic wishes of Scots.

This was accompanied by an audacious claim by the SNP leader to inherit the political mantle of the late Scottish Labour leader Donald Dewar, both in his referendum plans and in building national confidence.

Mr Salmond was speaking in Edinburgh on the second last day of Holyrood campaigning, saying he can work with the Westminster government, citing renewable energy as an example.

He said Labour's 50-year dominance of Scottish politics faces its end this week, and that there is no more "divine right" for the party to run Scotland. He said Mr Brown was making a "ridiculous attempt to bully Scotland into doing what he wants, which will backfire badly".

The SNP leader went on to say that formal mechanisms for managing the relationship between Whitehall and St Andrew's House will need to be used if there are different parties in charge on either side of the border.

This is because the joint ministerial committees have not met for the past five years and could involve disputes being resolved through an untested legal procedure.

On the 300th anniversary of the Scotland-England Union, Mr Salmond noted the lack of bunting and celebration. Pushing towards an independence referendum, he stressed there is common ground and room for compromise with the Liberal Democrats, including a ballot option of extra devolved powers.

Mr Salmond sought to link himself to the legacy of the late Scottish Labour leader, stressing that the first First Minister's speech at the 1999 Scottish Parliament opening had not put limits on home rule.

The SNP leader said Mr Dewar was the opponent who "encapsulated best the change in the move to Scottish confidence".

He claimed: "He and I had many debates and spats over the years. But the (1997 devolution) referendum campaign was his finest hour. The referendum framework was Donald Dewar's legacy.

"In particular I liked and admired his first speech to the Scottish Parliament when he spoke of the nature of Scotland and its diversity. That speech did not try to set any arbitrary limit on Scotland's progress. He emphasised that was a matter for the people of Scotland to decide."

An independent think tank, The National Institute of Economic and Social Research cast doubts on the SNP plans to boost Scottish economic growth. It claimed Scottish productivity growth is weak, leaving it vulnerable to fiscal deficits after a few years of North Sea oil providing a financial cushion. It also said that would make it difficult to achieve Irish-style corporate tax cuts.

Labours record in power has been shameful. God spare us another four years of sleazy, corrupt, dishonest and negative Labour rule. Scottish Labour are no more than Tony Blairs branch office in Scotland. They do Blairs bidding. Jack McConnell is Tony Blairs Scottish gopher. He does exactly as London says... as this London managed election campaign has clearly demonstrated. Before even considering a Labour vote.... Remember the illegal war in Iraq. Remember 650,000 dead Iraqis. Remember Labours "cash for honours" scandal Remember the new nuclear weapons they want to dump in Scotland. Remember Blairs humiliating and slavish devotion to George Bush. Remember Blairs refusal to call for Israel to halt it's murderous assault on Lebanon.... and the thousands of dead Lebanese civilians. Remember Labours shockingly negative election campaign.... and their dishonest attempts to portray Scotland as a basket case and the Scottish people as scroungers living off handouts from English taxpayers. Remember Labours lies, sleaze and corruption....and do not to forget their complete lack of ambition or new ideas with regards to Scotland. Another 4 years ????? we need like a hole in the head. Only the SNP and ALEX SALMOND has the ambition, drive, fresh ideas and devotion to Scotland required to move our Country forward. Put Scotland 1st. On Thursday.... SNP 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Labours record in power has been shameful.

God spare us another four years of sleazy, corrupt, dishonest and negative Labour rule.

Scottish Labour are no more than Tony Blairs branch office in Scotland. They do Blairs bidding.

Jack McConnell is Tony Blairs Scottish gopher. He does exactly as London says... as this London managed election campaign has clearly demonstrated.

Before even considering a Labour vote....

Remember the illegal war in Iraq.

Remember 650,000 dead Iraqis.

Remember Labours "cash for honours" scandal

Remember the new nuclear weapons they want to dump in Scotland.

Remember Blairs humiliating and slavish devotion to George Bush.

Remember Blairs refusal to call for Israel to halt it's murderous assault on Lebanon.... and the thousands of dead Lebanese civilians.

Remember Labours shockingly negative election campaign.... and their dishonest attempts to portray Scotland as a basket case and the Scottish people as scroungers living off handouts from English taxpayers.

Remember Labours lies, sleaze and corruption....and do not to forget their complete lack of ambition or new ideas with regards to Scotland.

Another 4 years ????? we need like a hole in the head.

Only the SNP and ALEX SALMOND has the ambition, drive, fresh ideas and devotion to Scotland required to move our Country forward.

Put Scotland 1st.

On Thursday.... SNP 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Labour are just showing the contempt they have the Scottish people. Gordon Brown is welcome to the PM of the UK if he thinks so little of his own people that he'd refuse to work with the party that the Scottish people might vote as the largest party. Stay home in London Mr. Brown because we have little respect for your and your war-mongering friends.

If Brown believed in Scotland he would be our first minister like Dewar was. Instead he is happy to become PM through the back door.

seen the latest polls?

the comeback is on!!!!!!!!

Does every political stories comments section have to become a thinly veiled party election broadcast for the SNP.

see ptdougs example above. Nicely regurgitated SNP facts and even the 1,2,3 SNP schiess at the end! lovely. It's a comments board, not an advertising space for party crap to be repeated verbatim. Ta.

Anyway, Ithought you lot were all boycotting the anti Scottish press....ie this one included.

Real Scot wrote:
seen the latest polls? the comeback is on!!!!!!!!

Dream on.

Labour are going to get thumped.

These polls will energise the doubters into voting SNP.

Given the choice, a positive future for Scotland under an SNP-led government or 4 more depressing years of McConnell and Co. doing less, worse, there is only one way to go.

On Thursday, vote all 3...SNP!

I am sickened with Labour. I have voted for them in the past but no more. The Evening Times said what I feel and that is Labour is just trying to bully us and I am sick to the back teeth. I saw their political broadcast today and it was shocking. They had an excellent piece of Scottish music and then ruined it by doing nothing but talk nonsense about the SNP, I actually tuned into watch it because I expected them to tell me about their policies. It seems to sum Labour up as they have a great piece of Scottish music then just drown it out with negative comment after negative comment. Not a single person, I repeat, not a single person I know is voting Labour. That shows you just how bad Labour are now in that ten years ago nearly everyone would've voted them here. They are right-wing, anti-Scottish, and anti-working class and only care about big busniess and Brown only cares about SE England because they are the ones he'll need to convince to get voted in. Brown can try to bully me all he wants but I'm not scared of him and his party and I'll be voting SNP because I will not tolerate being spoken down to by the likes of Brown, Blair, and Mcconnell. P. Norman

I am sickened with Labour. I have voted for them in the past but no more. The Evening Times said what I feel and that is Labour is just trying to bully us and I am sick to the back teeth. I saw their political broadcast today and it was shocking. They had an excellent piece of Scottish music and then ruined it by doing nothing but talk nonsense about the SNP, I actually tuned into watch it because I expected them to tell me about their policies. It seems to sum Labour up as they have a great piece of Scottish music then just drown it out with negative comment after negative comment. Not a single person, I repeat, not a single person I know is voting Labour. That shows you just how bad Labour are now in that ten years ago nearly everyone would've voted them here. They are right-wing, anti-Scottish, and anti-working class and only care about big busniess and Brown only cares about SE England because they are the ones he'll need to convince to get voted in.
Brown can try to bully me all he wants but I'm not scared of him and his party and I'll be voting SNP because I will not tolerate being spoken down to by the likes of Brown, Blair, and Mcconnell.

P. Norman

Where are these new polls? i really hope labour isn't in power again. It's such a depressing thought

Populous

SNP 33 (-1)
Lab 29 (-1)
Con 13 (0)
LD 15 (-3)
Others 10 (+4)

This is the Constituency result and I would point out that the others % is nuts as none of them are standing on constituency vote. I would expect the SNP share to rise considerably.

re.... YOU, ANNOYED PERSON There is an election on. The Unionists have the support of the vast majority of the Media... both broadcast and print. It's a comment board ???? Political comments on political stories are valid.... and there are plenty of unionists cutting'n'pasting Labour propaganda. Thats what happens at elections. If you dont like it.... go read the sports page. The anti SNP bias across the full spectrum of Scottish media leave us with no choice. If anyone think we are just gonna sit down and surrender.... forget about it ! Supporters of Independence HAVE to resort to guerilla marketing to get our message across, and there will be no apologies forthcoming for this tactic. The internet has given a voice to those previously unable to make themselves heard... ie The People. It is being used to great effect not just in the UK, but around the World... and particular good effect in the United States. Welcome to the 21st Century, dude.

re.... YOU, ANNOYED PERSON

There is an election on.

The Unionists have the support of the vast majority of the Media... both broadcast and print.

It's a comment board ???? Political comments on political stories are valid.... and there are plenty of unionists cutting'n'pasting Labour propaganda. Thats what happens at elections.

If you dont like it.... go read the sports page.

The anti SNP bias across the full spectrum of Scottish media leave us with no choice. If anyone think we are just gonna sit down and surrender.... forget about it !

Supporters of Independence HAVE to resort to guerilla marketing to get our message across, and there will be no apologies forthcoming for this tactic. The internet has given a voice to those previously unable to make themselves heard... ie The People. It is being used to great effect not just in the UK, but around the World... and particular good effect in the United States.

Welcome to the 21st Century, dude.

Whoops! just looked at my message and excuse the error at the bottom which is the start of a different email I'm writing.

There seems to be a rather desperate attempt by the media to try to rescue what has been a disasterous labour campaign.

The Scottish people KNOW that Labour is NO GOOD for Scotland.

Real Scot Lanark @ 10:53pm

This sort of poll has been predicted (for its timing and content) for weeks now. The Daily Record tried it a couple of decades ago and it worked. It will not work this time. Most of the die-hard Labour ballot fodder are in their early graves now. It's a different world and it will be even more different after 3rd May.

There is only one REAL SCOT in Lanark and that is William Wallace and we all know how he would have voted! All the rest are imposters.

Well Professor Curtice reckons it could be too close to call, but I guess there will be some Separationist conspiracy theories to the effect that he's been bribed by the evil unionists.

HA!!

Maybe it's no time after all!!!

We haven't seen the full details of the polls yet, but just to temper some of the Labour crowing above, I would point out that in the last Populus poll the SNP were four points ahead on the constituency vote. On the figures above, that's exactly where they remain now. So let's all keep a sense of perspective about where we are. Each page an SNP party political broadcast? You must be joking, 60% of this comments page is made up of Labour propaganda!

Mr J Nicholson, East Kilbride.

I was visiting relatives in Uddingston just a few days ago, and as I'm sure you are aware there is now an excellent bypass near centre 1 tax office in EK which joins Lanarkshire with Ayrshire.
Travelling towards the bypass I noticed several households with vote Labour posters in their windows. So obviously you have not spoken to enough voters.

Dear Mr Annoyed, Be thankful for these message boards, at least here you get to see varying opinions. If the Scottish press had any steel at all the story the story of wee Jack's Bro-in-law would be splashed above the fold. What d'ye mean, what story? The one about how 2 quids worth of public land was sold for a million - the Lanarkshire Sopranos strike again. The party of Keir Hardie is riddled from top to bottm with corruption and sleaze. London - cash for coronets. Holyrood - quango placements and see above. Local councils - well, let me tell you a story... In East Ayrshire there once was a Labour cooncilor who owned a blasting company. He was depute chairman of the planning committee which oversaw and approved opencast coal site applications, etc. This cooncilor's company did work on an opencast site for a coal company. Said coal company wanted to diversify and applied to build houses on a greenfield belt. Said belt had been earmarked for preservation in Cooncil's local plan, meaning come **** or high water no way would building be allowed on it. Lo and behold, when coal company's application came before planning it was approved. Cooncilor's company now does blasting for that coal company on multiple sites. Of course, this might be coincidence - anyway, no way on God's earth would I vote for any of the red rose brigade.

Dear Mr Annoyed,
Be thankful for these message boards, at least here you get to see varying opinions.
If the Scottish press had any steel at all the story the story of wee Jack's Bro-in-law would be splashed above the fold.
What d'ye mean, what story?
The one about how 2 quids worth of public land was sold for a million - the Lanarkshire Sopranos strike again.
The party of Keir Hardie is riddled from top to bottm with corruption and sleaze.
London - cash for coronets.
Holyrood - quango placements and see above.
Local councils - well, let me tell you a story...
In East Ayrshire there once was a Labour cooncilor who owned a blasting company. He was depute chairman of the planning committee which oversaw and approved opencast coal site applications, etc.
This cooncilor's company did work on an opencast site for a coal company.
Said coal company wanted to diversify and applied to build houses on a greenfield belt.
Said belt had been earmarked for preservation in Cooncil's local plan, meaning come **** or high water no way would building be allowed on it.
Lo and behold, when coal company's application came before planning it was approved.
Cooncilor's company now does blasting for that coal company on multiple sites.
Of course, this might be coincidence - anyway, no way on God's earth would I vote for any of the red rose brigade.

I actually live very near that bypass and its excellent because we can get into Glasgow in twenty five or thirty minutes. To answer your question, I have not spoken to those people with Labour posters in windows and I can assure you that not a single person I know is to vote Labour. I was discussing the debate last night night with my neighbours today and they all, to a man, said they are sick of Labour. I don't mean everyone is voting SNP some will vote EK Alliance especially for the Council and a few for Greens but there is no one, who will admit at least, who plans to vote Labour. It is the first time I have put a message on here although I read this internet page everyday because I felt so angry that Brown is trying to talk to down to people like me. He asked me to come home yesterday for gods sake which is just insulting. I will vote SNP because Labour thought they could count on my vote as if I was some sort of voting machine. I have my own mind and I know when people think I'm no longer welcome and Labour couldn't care less about me and people like me last year and its only now that all of a sudden I have a 'home' at Labour.

I have a question for all the SNP voters who are so against trident. Lets forget the cost for a moment although in my opinion it is a cost worth paying. But I also pay House insurance, car insurance, credit card insurance etc. And I hate paying them but would never dream of giving them up. Afterall that is exactly what trident is. It is insurance which shows the rogue states such as IRAN, NORTH KOREA. That they will never take over the world whilst democratic nations have the ability to fight back. I can hear the snide remarks coming back before I've even finished. But lets look at this in your wee dream world of a Nuclear free Scotland. Now, ( god forbid it ever happens). But lets say IRAN Or some other nation fires a Nuclear bomb at LONDON. Are you trying to tell me that the radiation and effects of the bomb will travel up through England and stop at the border, because Scotland gave up the weapons?. Are you really saying that allowing these nations to have weapons is ok, because they are all so nice and will give up their weapons when the west gives up theirs. Why was there 2 world wars within 21 years of each other, yet thankfully there hasnt been anything as bad since the Western world found the way to stop the likes of IRAN, or NORTH KOREA was build a weapon which will make them think twice. I feel safer with the trident.

I have a question for all the SNP voters who are so against trident.
Lets forget the cost for a moment although in my opinion it is a cost worth paying.
But I also pay House insurance, car insurance, credit card insurance etc. And I hate paying them but would never dream of giving them up. Afterall that is exactly what trident is. It is insurance which shows the rogue states such as IRAN, NORTH KOREA. That they will never take over the world whilst democratic nations have the ability to fight back.
I can hear the snide remarks coming back before I've even finished.
But lets look at this in your wee dream world of a Nuclear free Scotland.
Now, ( god forbid it ever happens). But lets say IRAN Or some other nation fires a Nuclear bomb at LONDON. Are you trying to tell me that the radiation and effects of the bomb will travel up through England and stop at the border, because Scotland gave up the weapons?.
Are you really saying that allowing these nations to have weapons is ok, because they are all so nice and will give up their weapons when the west gives up theirs.
Why was there 2 world wars within 21 years of each other, yet thankfully there hasnt been anything as bad since the Western world found the way to stop the likes of IRAN, or NORTH KOREA was build a weapon which will make them think twice. I feel safer with the trident.

If labour do get back in, then the Purgatory that will follow and, I mean it most definitely will follow, we shall only have ourselves to blame.

This man will receive a medal from The President here, while his hands are still red from our troops blood.
He cares little for us...but loves the glory the dead have brought him outside of Britain...and cares little for the hate within our land.

He makes me sick!

Nats may win but there's no comparison with Dewar and 97. Labour has transformed Scotland from mass unemployment, depression and ailing public services to a confident, ever-prosperous partner in the Union, with near full employment, world leading scientists and engineers, a global financial hub and transformed public services, attracting students, skilled professionals and families the world over. I'm voting to continue building this progress and reject the sneering, narrow nationalism seen in these posts.

oh aye here the come, lab crawling ott the'r holes, it's just a lull before the storm hits so crawl on back, next thing is they be tell us the daily retareds been right all along. one poll does a summer make. an it still put SNP up front.

Pete, Doune on 10:51pm If Brown believed in Scotland he would be our first minister like Dewar was. Instead he is happy to become PM through the back door. The other side of that coin is Alex Salmond, If as expected the SNP become the majority party he will give up his Westminster seat to become First Minister but if they don't he does not intend to give up his Westminster seat to take his seat in Holyrood. What does that make him? he will only sit in the Scottish parliament that he loves so much it is the top job other wise he is going back the the place he believes should not even have a say in Scotland's affairs. (Hypocrisy of the highest degree) Back to the report if Brown wants Scotland to gain separation from the rest of the UK then he is going the right way about it by refusing to talk to a duly elected Scottish exclusive even I would consider voting for separation if he tried that antic.

Pete, Doune on 10:51pm
If Brown believed in Scotland he would be our first minister like Dewar was. Instead he is happy to become PM through the back door.

The other side of that coin is Alex Salmond, If as expected the SNP become the majority party he will give up his Westminster seat to become First Minister but if they don't he does not intend to give up his Westminster seat to take his seat in Holyrood.
What does that make him? he will only sit in the Scottish parliament that he loves so much it is the top job other wise he is going back the the place he believes should not even have a say in Scotland's affairs. (Hypocrisy of the highest degree)
Back to the report if Brown wants Scotland to gain separation from the rest of the UK then he is going the right way about it by refusing to talk to a duly elected Scottish exclusive even I would consider voting for separation if he tried that antic.

"disaterous in it consequencies and reactionary in its soul " Tony Blair's view of nationalism in Scotland yesterday. The electorate's view of Blairism on Thursday I reckon

To understand what has happended watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR98VVgyGF4

Yea verily, if Labour do scrape a win, God help all those seats that switched allegiance from them - you can kiss goodbye to any investment.
On the other hand, if the SNP form the next Executive, Broon's wrath will be mighty to behold! All Scotland will suffer.
I've only one thing to add - Bring It On!!

Jason, I'm sure you're aware North Korea are currently in the process of admitting UN inspectors because of multilateral negotiations in which 'frozen' NK assets were released. The North Koreans did not permit this access because other countries have WMD, they were admitted because the power-holders wanted these assets. Thus it is sensible to ensure that the entire golbe is free of these weapons and the only eway this is achieved is by discussion. If we hold these weapons then it only adds legitimacy and impetus to others who want these weapons because of the relative power balanes cretaed by holding these awful machines. In my opinion a small sovereign Scottish nation-state would not require these terrible machinations and it is shameful for these weapons of terror to be parked in Scottish waters. The only way forward for Scotland is to become independent to become a full member-state of the European Union and then it would possible to create a collective security agenda in the EU. Scotland does not need these WMD on her shores and there is no argument to be made for our tax money to be poured into these awful machines of mass death.

Jason,
I'm sure you're aware North Korea are currently in the process of admitting UN inspectors because of multilateral negotiations in which 'frozen' NK assets were released. The North Koreans did not permit this access because other countries have WMD, they were admitted because the power-holders wanted these assets. Thus it is sensible to ensure that the entire golbe is free of these weapons and the only eway this is achieved is by discussion. If we hold these weapons then it only adds legitimacy and impetus to others who want these weapons because of the relative power balanes cretaed by holding these awful machines.
In my opinion a small sovereign Scottish nation-state would not require these terrible machinations and it is shameful for these weapons of terror to be parked in Scottish waters. The only way forward for Scotland is to become independent to become a full member-state of the European Union and then it would possible to create a collective security agenda in the EU. Scotland does not need these WMD on her shores and there is no argument to be made for our tax money to be poured into these awful machines of mass death.

[quote][bold]Building Up, not breaking up[/bold] wrote: Nats may win but there's no comparison with Dewar and 97. Labour has transformed Scotland from mass unemployment, depression and ailing public services to a confident, ever-prosperous partner in the Union, with near full employment, world leading scientists and engineers, a global financial hub and transformed public services, attracting students, skilled professionals and families the world over. I'm voting to continue building this progress and reject the sneering, narrow nationalism seen in these posts.[/quote] It is wrong to say Scotland is an ever-prosperous member of this Union because Scotland's growth is consistently below the UK average and wages remain lower than the rest of the UK. This is because the power-base is situated hundreds of miles away and so money, talent, and businesses circulate around this power base. The purpose of the SNP is to create Scotland as a power base and so improve lives of Scottish people. There is nothing narrow about the SNP because they are the only internationalist party who plan to ensure our people can stand equally with every other state in the global system. The other parties have a narrow British nationalism that inhibits the Scottish people from achieving their potential.

Building Up, not breaking up wrote:
Nats may win but there's no comparison with Dewar and 97. Labour has transformed Scotland from mass unemployment, depression and ailing public services to a confident, ever-prosperous partner in the Union, with near full employment, world leading scientists and engineers, a global financial hub and transformed public services, attracting students, skilled professionals and families the world over. I'm voting to continue building this progress and reject the sneering, narrow nationalism seen in these posts.

It is wrong to say Scotland is an ever-prosperous member of this Union because Scotland's growth is consistently below the UK average and wages remain lower than the rest of the UK. This is because the power-base is situated hundreds of miles away and so money, talent, and businesses circulate around this power base. The purpose of the SNP is to create Scotland as a power base and so improve lives of Scottish people. There is nothing narrow about the SNP because they are the only internationalist party who plan to ensure our people can stand equally with every other state in the global system. The other parties have a narrow British nationalism that inhibits the Scottish people from achieving their potential.

Rorty is fond of saying that if we look after freedom then truth will look after itself. If this maxim were applied to this election then interesting conclusions can be reached about the nature of truth. If truth can look after itself in an environment of freedom then the consequences for truth can be grave in an environment in which freedom for a people is campaigned against so viciously by those in authority. The North Sea used to have proceeds from gas attributed to Scotland in the early 1970's. Oil was then discovered and so it became of vital importance to the UK government to ensure that proceeds of oil are attributed to the UK as a whole. This was done at a time in which the McCrone report was buried, and then the government of the day in the early 1980's, refused to bail out the jobs for thousands of people and ensure Scotland suffered a reduced living standard and pride in itself for generations. All the while the oil money flowed into Westminster. The oil revenues are obviously still registered to Westminster so when the English believe they are subsidising the Scottish nation they are unaware of the deceit, power-politics, and misuse of a people's wealth. Of course, the future of an independent Scotland relies not only on oil and the economics of independence suggests that our prosperity would excel other areas of the British Isles. The economic argument for independence is not solely an economic arrangement as a reason for independence. The Scottish people have the right to their oil just as the Scottish people have the right to self-determination. The arguments are economical and philosophical respectively but the two are entwined. The Scottish nation must have self-determination so we can have pride in our ancient nation once again but also so we can decide to our own way in this world using the resources at our disposal. Truth in politics does not look after itself thus the Scottish nation must determine to look after ourselves because the status quo has displayed the tendency to destroy and bury the truth.

Rorty is fond of saying that if we look after freedom then truth will look after itself. If this maxim were applied to this election then interesting conclusions can be reached about the nature of truth. If truth can look after itself in an environment of freedom then the consequences for truth can be grave in an environment in which freedom for a people is campaigned against so viciously by those in authority.

The North Sea used to have proceeds from gas attributed to Scotland in the early 1970's. Oil was then discovered and so it became of vital importance to the UK government to ensure that proceeds of oil are attributed to the UK as a whole. This was done at a time in which the McCrone report was buried, and then the government of the day in the early 1980's, refused to bail out the jobs for thousands of people and ensure Scotland suffered a reduced living standard and pride in itself for generations. All the while the oil money flowed into Westminster.

The oil revenues are obviously still registered to Westminster so when the English believe they are subsidising the Scottish nation they are unaware of the deceit, power-politics, and misuse of a people's wealth. Of course, the future of an independent Scotland relies not only on oil and the economics of independence suggests that our prosperity would excel other areas of the British Isles. The economic argument for independence is not solely an economic arrangement as a reason for independence. The Scottish people have the right to their oil just as the Scottish people have the right to self-determination. The arguments are economical and philosophical respectively but the two are entwined. The Scottish nation must have self-determination so we can have pride in our ancient nation once again but also so we can decide to our own way in this world using the resources at our disposal.

Truth in politics does not look after itself thus the Scottish nation must determine to look after ourselves because the status quo has displayed the tendency to destroy and bury the truth.

Guerilla marketing!!! Feck! with a diatribe like that you should be in Solidarity comrade. I have no problem with debate, Just the unimaginative cut and paste from the SNP manifesto. I've read it already, thanks. Give us some opinion, not a rerun of the manifesto, "Dude MR ANNOYED PERSON... None of what I wrote is cut'n'paste from the SNP Manifesto...as if !!! You haven't read it at all... have you dude? Come on ...be honest. No be a good boy and comment on the content..... the comment on Labours shocking record. Is there anything on that list that isn't true? If so.... tell us. I'll start you off. Do you deny the Labour Government, with their "best pal" in the world, George Bush.... ordered British forces to attack Iraq. And if you dont deny it.... you would surely agree that they, LABOUR, must accept responsibility for the 650,000 Iraqis killed as a direct result of Blairs reckless military adventure in the middle east.

Guerilla marketing!!! Feck! with a diatribe like that you should be in Solidarity comrade.

I have no problem with debate, Just the unimaginative cut and paste from the SNP manifesto. I've read it already, thanks.

Give us some opinion, not a rerun of the manifesto, "Dude

MR ANNOYED PERSON...

None of what I wrote is cut'n'paste from the SNP Manifesto...as if !!!

You haven't read it at all... have you dude? Come on ...be honest.

No be a good boy and comment on the content..... the comment on Labours shocking record.

Is there anything on that list that isn't true? If so.... tell us.

I'll start you off.

Do you deny the Labour Government, with their "best pal" in the world, George Bush.... ordered British forces to attack Iraq.

And if you dont deny it.... you would surely agree that they, LABOUR, must accept responsibility for the 650,000 Iraqis killed as a direct result of Blairs reckless military adventure in the middle east.

I walked by some SNP rooms today. Busy with people, folk goin in and out, looked fairly active (at that time in the afternoon anyway).

Ten minutes up the road and I pass the Labour rooms. Deserted. Guy hanging out door having a ****, looking bored out his nut.

I freely admit to being politically biased, and there may well have been dozens of party workers round the corner out of sight, but Labour seem to have trouble getting their activists out to work. Thursday may depend on all parties' activists getting the vote out - and Labour's didn't look too active today.

Simply, It is becoming clear to the people of Scotland that the SNP simply don't come without seperation and that does not come without tax, turmoil and constitutional chaos.

The censored part was an alternative word for 'ciggie', by the way.

I have been reading the posts on the election stories for the last 2 weeks and have been prompted by Mr J Nicholson to put up my own comment as well. I've been doing voter contact in a range of constituencies during the campaign and here are my observations - 1) Labour have become the new Tories: for years no one would admit to being a Conservative voter, now it's Labour voters who refuse to answer, hedge their bets, don't want to say. Conservatives I have to say are once and again loud and proud - sadly. But many are prepared to vote tactically in key Labour/SNP marginals. 2) There are still a lot of undecideds out there but as a seasoned campaigner I know that a lot of these are people who just don't vote ever or are disillusioned voters who will stay at home this time 3) Don't underestimate the power of the Labour machine - they have been using UK resources to phone in key marginals. And in Kilmarnock on polling day every Unison official (paid for by the dues of their members of all political persuasions and none) will be there working to get their vote out. 4) The mood in the country has changed - there are many former Lab voters like Mr Nicholson and people are much warmer generally to the SNP and more receptive to their campaigning. I've seen more SNP window posters in Edinburgh this campaign than ever before - not normally an Auld Reekie trait to proclaim party affiliation so proudly. The prevailing mood is for change - time to get Labour out, similar to 1997's mood towards the Conservatives. 5) But people have to go out and vote to make it happen. Vote early, vote wisely, vote with your heart, vote with your head - make your vote count! 6) Where oh where is the insider from EK???? Have Labour bound and gagged him??? Be good to get a sense of what is happening from within and not have to rely on these awful last minute polls...

Elrond,

Yon "insider" was nothing of the sort. Just some chancer who took all you Nats in, pretending his brother had top secret Labour poll figures which he just happened to let his SNP brother see.

I think he stopped showing his face after his weekend 'prediction' of a Labour MP defecting to the SNP. A bit like the Mormons. One thing predicting the end of the world, different if you put a date on it.

Geez, there was even one guy on The Scotsman site today claiming Jack McConnell had resigned from the Labour Party. Always someone will believe what they want to.

INTER-nationalist

Aye you're probably right. Incidentally, have you ever read Jimmy Reid's explanation of how an internationalist like him came late in life to being a nationalist? I think he did an article in the Herald a while back. It was interesting and would be worth digging out. The two are not exclusive..

Jason4queen wrote:
I have a question for all the SNP voters who are so against trident.
Lets forget the cost for a moment although in my opinion it is a cost worth paying.
But I also pay House insurance, car insurance, credit card insurance etc. And I hate paying them but would never dream of giving them up. Afterall that is exactly what trident is. It is insurance which shows the rogue states such as IRAN, NORTH KOREA. That they will never take over the world whilst democratic nations have the ability to fight back.
I can hear the snide remarks coming back before I\'ve even finished.
But lets look at this in your wee dream world of a Nuclear free Scotland.
Now, ( god forbid it ever happens). But lets say IRAN Or some other nation fires a Nuclear bomb at LONDON. Are you trying to tell me that the radiation and effects of the bomb will travel up through England and stop at the border, because Scotland gave up the weapons?.
Are you really saying that allowing these nations to have weapons is ok, because they are all so nice and will give up their weapons when the west gives up theirs.
Why was there 2 world wars within 21 years of each other, yet thankfully there hasnt been anything as bad since the Western world found the way to stop the likes of IRAN, or NORTH KOREA was build a weapon which will make them think twice. I feel safer with the trident.

Are you aware that we cannot fire these weapons without US agreement. It is the US that holds the codes, not the UK. In effect these are US weapons. Let's stick with reality!

Voting Labour means more war, more costly nuclear weapons and more poverty.

Voting SNP means no Council Tax, no student poverty and a referendum on Scotland's future.

Make an informed choice.

Why do you think scotland needs nuclear weapons? Who are we actually going to use them on? North Korea.

Keep the momentum going. We need a strong SNP vote. If labour get in again then Scotland will be ignored for another 4 years, and we'll have another puppet government. SNP is the only party who truly stand up for Scotland. They are the only party offering us a democratic vote on our constitutional future. An SNP victory will make world news for Scotland.

Mr. J. Nicholson, well said mate!
To all you pro unionists, if you think for one minute that Scotland is doing well under Labour then really you need your heads looked at! This country is going to get raped for another four years by some useless **** whose a puppet to the London goverment, unless we do something about. FFS this counrty has so much to do to get back off it's knees, i can't believe there is people out there that are so blind to whats going on in Scotland. Wake UP!! VOTE SNP

BBC - Blair's Brainwashing Company Eric Evans in BBC History! WHO GAINED MOST WHEN SCOTLAND AND ENGLAND JOINED IN 1707? This title contains two lies: the proposition that either gained is a matter for debate and is not a fact, and the article is and can only be what happened after the Union which was enforced, not joined voluntarily as equals. The whole article goes on to assert that �There is powerful reason for believing the Scots gained more than they lost� but there is much more assertion than argument. The point however is that the question is not whether Scotland or England have gained or lost over the last 300 years, but whether either country would have been better off without the Union. The author is not thinking straight. My knowledge of history is very sketchy, but I do know that the potato famine of the 1840s and the Highland Clearances hit many Scots hard and they were largely the product of the actions of the Bank of England under the demands of Parliament in London. Germany and Belgium gained more from English and Scottish inventions in the 19th century than either of our two nations. Indeed by 1870 Germany had far outstripped Britain�s economy. Even after not a very brilliant government under the Kaiser, Germany was able to beat Russia and hold half of France and Flanders. Without an empire worth speaking about, Germany held at bay three nations whose empires were supposed to make them greater powers! In 1940 Germany beat all of Europe hollow.

BBC - Blair's Brainwashing Company

Eric Evans in BBC History!

WHO GAINED MOST WHEN SCOTLAND AND ENGLAND JOINED IN 1707?

This title contains two lies: the proposition that either gained is a matter for debate and is not a fact, and the article is and can only be what happened after the Union which was enforced, not joined voluntarily as equals.

The whole article goes on to assert that �There is powerful reason for believing the Scots gained more than they lost� but there is much more assertion than argument. The point however is that the question is not whether Scotland or England have gained or lost over the last 300 years, but whether either country would have been better off without the Union. The author is not thinking straight.

My knowledge of history is very sketchy, but I do know that the potato famine of the 1840s and the Highland Clearances hit many Scots hard and they were largely the product of the actions of the Bank of England under the demands of Parliament in London. Germany and Belgium gained more from English and Scottish inventions in the 19th century than either of our two nations. Indeed by 1870 Germany had far outstripped Britain�s economy. Even after not a very brilliant government under the Kaiser, Germany was able to beat Russia and hold half of France and Flanders. Without an empire worth speaking about, Germany held at bay three nations whose empires were supposed to make them greater powers! In 1940 Germany beat all of Europe hollow.

I still don't understand the Populus poll. How could the constituency result for Others be 10 when no Others are standing for constituencies?

Can someone (from Populus or otherwise) explain this and tell us what results the poll predicts if you only include the parties which are actually standing in constituencies?

real scot lanark says
seen the polls the come back is on

grow up ya numpty a few days ago you didnt believe in the polls
any one worth their salt will be able to see these ones for what they are .believe me i have been round the doors there is no revival
the haemorage of labours votes continues unabated
after the real poll on thursday the pollsters are going to have egg on their facrs and a lot of explaining to do!

It is with profound sadness that today I have decided to resign my Labour Party membership. When I first met Tony Blair I was enthused that at last we had a man of potential greatness who could deliver a better Britain, a man who cared about social inequalities, a man whom the public would embrace and return to Government. Sadly Mr. Blair, has ruled cabinet like the worst of the Tory grandees, he has lied about unemployment figures and has embraced genocide in the shape of Iraq, he embraced Trident, plans to pay for it, base it here and then hand over the keys to the USA . Worst of all is the selling of honours for Party funds. This is a hypocrisy too far. We came to power on the back of a debased Tory party mired in sleaze, and within a matter of months started adopting the same noses in the trough approach. On behalf of my former constituents I had many opportunities to work with members of the Labour executive in the Holyrood, sad to say I met incompetence ona grand scale. I was astonished to discover that in many cases the most basic tenets of Scots Law were alien to senior members of the Justice team, my encounters with the First Minister have left me saddened that such a mediocre man should inveigle his way into such a position of authority. I wish it were otherwise, I know there are many bright young activists coming through, not all adhering to the Blair sheen of PR, some seeing more to public life than personal glory. There comes a time, when all political parties need a bloody nose to remind them that they are employed by the people for the people. This time has come for Labour. Tomorrow I'll be voting SNP 1st and 2nd. I do not take this decision lightly. I am not a strong believer in Independence I think what holds us together inthe union strengthens us. However, I am prepared to see the SNP given the opportunity to govern. Many of their policies hold water and are in fact very similar to those which we have toyed with over the years.

It is with profound sadness that today I have decided to resign my Labour Party membership. When I first met Tony Blair I was enthused that at last we had a man of potential greatness who could deliver a better Britain, a man who cared about social inequalities, a man whom the public would embrace and return to Government.

Sadly Mr. Blair, has ruled cabinet like the worst of the Tory grandees, he has lied about unemployment figures and has embraced genocide in the shape of Iraq, he embraced Trident, plans to pay for it, base it here and then hand over the keys to the USA .

Worst of all is the selling of honours for Party funds. This is a hypocrisy too far. We came to power on the back of a debased Tory party mired in sleaze, and within a matter of months started adopting the same noses in the trough approach.

On behalf of my former constituents I had many opportunities to work with members of the Labour executive in the Holyrood, sad to say I met incompetence ona grand scale. I was astonished to discover that in many cases the most basic tenets of Scots Law were alien to senior members of the Justice team, my encounters with the First Minister have left me saddened that such a mediocre man should inveigle his way into such a position of authority. I wish it were otherwise, I know there are many bright young activists coming through, not all adhering to the Blair sheen of PR, some seeing more to public life than personal glory.

There comes a time, when all political parties need a bloody nose to remind them that they are employed by the people for the people. This time has come for Labour.

Tomorrow I'll be voting SNP 1st and 2nd. I do not take this decision lightly.

I am not a strong believer in Independence I think what holds us together inthe union strengthens us. However, I am prepared to see the SNP given the opportunity to govern. Many of their policies hold water and are in fact very similar to those which we have toyed with over the years.

Jason4queen wrote:
Mr J Nicholson, East Kilbride. I was visiting relatives in Uddingston just a few days ago, and as I'm sure you are aware there is now an excellent bypass near centre 1 tax office in EK which joins Lanarkshire with Ayrshire. Travelling towards the bypass I noticed several households with vote Labour posters in their windows. So obviously you have not spoken to enough voters.

Och Jason................yer makin' it worse for yersel'.
Unwisely, you previously invited us to look at yer website.
Frankly, it's SO pathetic..............and confirms a'body's view that yer an empty-headed numpty........(amongst other things !!!...like compulsive attention seeking??).
Stay in and hae a cuppa, son.

VOTE FOR NEW LABOUR AND ITS CANDIDATES IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO BE A LOSER or VOTE (X) FOR ALEX SALMOND AS FIRST MINISTER AND VOTE (X) FOR YOUR SCOTTISH NATIONAL PARTY CONSTITUENCY CANDIDATE IF YOU WANT TO BE A WINNER! Those who vote for New Labour will waken up on 4 May in the same provincial backwater of the UK which is of little interest to the Westminster based political parties except when they need its abundant natural resources and its MP's to prop up an ailing UK New Labour government; where telling lies to the people and accepting bribes for honours is considered to be acceptable by New Labour and its media supporters; to more of the same chronic dependency culture, low achievement, and low self-esteem that has characterised and bedevilled Scotland since the Union 300 years ago; more high taxation that stifles private businesses and punishes those on low incomes in order to benefit high earners; where there is no separate economic policy uniquely tailored for Scotland's needs; where storing hundreds of nuclear warheads close by to Glasgow and Edinburgh but not London is considered acceptable; where building new nuclear power stations is OK despite the fact that Scotland has bountiful safer greener alternatives; that is part of a UK that has post-imperial delusions that making war should be its only foreign and energy policy and carelessly sends its troops to war inadequately trained and equipped as cannon fodder. Those who vote for Alex Salmond as First Minister and the Scottish National Party regional constituency candidates will waken up 4 May to a new hope for a better future for themselves and the children of Scotland; where hard work will begin from 4 May to eradicate Scotland's dependency culture, low achievement, and low self-esteem in an invigorated nation where politicians tell them the truth always and which in time will become another quietly self-confident, vibrant, and very successful nation like its similarly endowed near neighbours e.g Ireland, Norway, Denmark, etc ; to a land where the high taxation on private business will gradually be reduced to stimulate growth and the regressive and unfair Council Tax which penalises low earners will be replaced with a local income tax based upon ability to pay; where there will be a separate economic policy uniquely tailored for Scotland for the first time in order to stimulate and grow our economy thus putting Scotland First; where Scotland will assert itself and mean it when it says NO to storing nuclear weapons and building new nuclear power stations on its soil; and where in time Scotland will have the opportunity to vote to rid itself of the Union and its post-imperial delusions. DON'T WASTE YOUR VOTE ON ANY OTHER PARTY � VOTE SNP EVERY TIME ON 4 MAY!

VOTE FOR NEW LABOUR AND ITS CANDIDATES IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO BE A LOSER or VOTE (X) FOR ALEX SALMOND AS FIRST MINISTER AND VOTE (X) FOR YOUR SCOTTISH NATIONAL PARTY CONSTITUENCY CANDIDATE IF YOU WANT TO BE A WINNER!

Those who vote for New Labour will waken up on 4 May in the same provincial backwater of the UK which is of little interest to the Westminster based political parties except when they need its abundant natural resources and its MP's to prop up an ailing UK New Labour government; where telling lies to the people and accepting bribes for honours is considered to be acceptable by New Labour and its media supporters; to more of the same chronic dependency culture, low achievement, and low self-esteem that has characterised and bedevilled Scotland since the Union 300 years ago; more high taxation that stifles private businesses and punishes those on low incomes in order to benefit high earners; where there is no separate economic policy uniquely tailored for Scotland's needs; where storing hundreds of nuclear warheads close by to Glasgow and Edinburgh but not London is considered acceptable; where building new nuclear power stations is OK despite the fact that Scotland has bountiful safer greener alternatives; that is part of a UK that has post-imperial delusions that making war should be its only foreign and energy policy and carelessly sends its troops to war inadequately trained and equipped as cannon fodder.

Those who vote for Alex Salmond as First Minister and the Scottish National Party regional constituency candidates will waken up 4 May to a new hope for a better future for themselves and the children of Scotland; where hard work will begin from 4 May to eradicate Scotland's dependency culture, low achievement, and low self-esteem in an invigorated nation where politicians tell them the truth always and which in time will become another quietly self-confident, vibrant, and very successful nation like its similarly endowed near neighbours e.g Ireland, Norway, Denmark, etc ; to a land where the high taxation on private business will gradually be reduced to stimulate growth and the regressive and unfair Council Tax which penalises low earners will be replaced with a local income tax based upon ability to pay; where there will be a separate economic policy uniquely tailored for Scotland for the first time in order to stimulate and grow our economy thus putting Scotland First; where Scotland will assert itself and mean it when it says NO to storing nuclear weapons and building new nuclear power stations on its soil; and where in time Scotland will have the opportunity to vote to rid itself of the Union and its post-imperial delusions.

DON'T WASTE YOUR VOTE ON ANY OTHER PARTY � VOTE SNP EVERY TIME ON 4 MAY!

[quote][bold]Jason4queen[/bold] wrote: Mr J Nicholson, East Kilbride. I was visiting relatives in Uddingston just a few days ago, and as I\'m sure you are aware there is now an excellent bypass near centre 1 tax office in EK which joins Lanarkshire with Ayrshire. Travelling towards the bypass I noticed several households with vote Labour posters in their windows. So obviously you have not spoken to enough voters.[/quote] Och Jason.........yer jist makin' it worse for yersel' son. Ye invited us tae look at yer website, which wiz NOT a good idea and confirms a'body's view that ye are indeed a very silly boy indeed. .......Nae brains...(an'worse..disnae know it)..................and a very big attention seeker !!! Get a life son........Be Happy !!........(but calm with it Eh??)

Jason4queen wrote:
Mr J Nicholson, East Kilbride. I was visiting relatives in Uddingston just a few days ago, and as I\'m sure you are aware there is now an excellent bypass near centre 1 tax office in EK which joins Lanarkshire with Ayrshire. Travelling towards the bypass I noticed several households with vote Labour posters in their windows. So obviously you have not spoken to enough voters.

Och Jason.........yer jist makin' it worse for yersel' son.
Ye invited us tae look at yer website, which wiz NOT a good idea and confirms a'body's view that ye are indeed a very silly boy indeed.
.......Nae brains...(an'worse..disnae know it)..................and a very big attention seeker !!!
Get a life son........Be Happy !!........(but calm with it Eh??)

What a cheek! IF Alex Salmond and the SNP is elected to represent Scotland and Gordon Brown is British PM - Gordon B has no choice.

Perhaps he finds it easier to work with the Chinese with their appalling record of human rights who should never been permitted to house the Olympic games... but that is another story.

Alex Salmond might be able to help Gordon as he has admitted he wasn't very good at Maths.... and Alex S was a banker.

Wendy Alexander was round my way yesterday. How the **** that woman has the gall to go doorstepping is beyond me....

I was out at work when she called, but I dare say if she was in I would have given her it both barrels, verbally

"Hen, ye're a dog and ye're brothers a pie"

Jason4queen, Ayrshire Re Trident.
Comparing Trident to home insurance ! I think that even if you survived a nuclear attack your policy wouldn't cover you for it.

SNP for ME - Labour have proven that they are unfit to govern Scotland, we all have a choice let's put SCOTLAND first for once.

SAOR ALBA

"The best WEE country in the world!" - Jack McConnell is very proud of this statement and that he has taken it out to the world but I wonder, in my opinion there is nothing wee about Scotland and it's achievement and contribution to the society. It is a constant embarrassment to me when I have customers flying in from the states or other countries into Glasgow airport only to see the above statement which has them laughing and me fuming.

Remember the story about "The mouse that roared" Jack. You might just be able to hear it starting to clear it's throat!

So Trident is insurance ? Bizarre train of thought. Trident is not a deterrant. Did it deter Argentina when they tried to take the Falklands ? Did it deter Iran when they took those fifteen sailors ?
As a weapon who are we going to use it on ? North Korea ?
Mad Mental byraway...

Jason4queen & Trident

Don't worry princess, if a nucleur bomb strikes Patna there'll no be much damage. That's already been done by 50 years of Labour domination.

[quote][bold]Keynes[/bold] wrote: BBC - Blair\'s Brainwashing Company Eric Evans in BBC History! WHO GAINED MOST WHEN SCOTLAND AND ENGLAND JOINED IN 1707? This title contains two lies: the proposition that either gained is a matter for debate and is not a fact, and the article is and can only be what happened after the Union which was enforced, not joined voluntarily as equals. The whole article goes on to assert that �There is powerful reason for believing the Scots gained more than they lost� but there is much more assertion than argument. The point however is that the question is not whether Scotland or England have gained or lost over the last 300 years, but whether either country would have been better off without the Union. The author is not thinking straight. My knowledge of history is very sketchy, but I do know that the potato famine of the 1840s and the Highland Clearances hit many Scots hard and they were largely the product of the actions of the Bank of England under the demands of Parliament in London. Germany and Belgium gained more from English and Scottish inventions in the 19th century than either of our two nations. Indeed by 1870 Germany had far outstripped Britain�s economy. Even after not a very brilliant government under the Kaiser, Germany was able to beat Russia and hold half of France and Flanders. Without an empire worth speaking about, Germany held at bay three nations whose empires were supposed to make them greater powers! In 1940 Germany beat all of Europe hollow. [/quote] Keynes, Have a look at the article in yesterday's Scotsman by Prof Allan I MacInnes the Chair of History at Aberdeen University. The common perception everyone appears to now believe is that Darien bust Scotland, and England in her mercy rode in to save the day. It is totally incorrect, in-so-far as England was as skint as a footballer�s knee, and the only people who lost money in Darien were the Scottish noble classes. The community of Scotland was no richer or poorer than it was before the venture. The new "British" solution to Scotland's noble ills was to raise all Taxes to English levels, and as the good Prof muses "The Scots were in effect agreeing to fund their own Union dividend." Another New History claim is that Scotland was donated access to English trading routes, which again is utter kakk. Scotland was not allowed to trade at all with the East Indies and had only very limited access to the Americas. The Union ended the trade Scotland enjoyed shipping English product to Europe because of our lower taxes, and the Scottish ports took a financial hammering until fine upstanding Scottish merchants discovered the pleasure of the previously English-dominated Slave Trade and made their fortunes building humungous stone epitaphs to themselves in the magnificent buildings that dominate the Glasgow skyline. So from an 18th Century perspective, the Union did absolutely nothing for the average Scot or English. The Union gave England manpower for their continental and American wars, manufacturing, and expanding the Empire. The Union gave Scotland huge sums for its top earners and nobility, a top-3 place in the Slave Trade, and the political dominance of West Central Scotland which keeps the rest of us in thraldom. But to the question you want answered: I haven't a clue. It's impossible to guess how 19th, 20th and 21st Century Scotland and England would be if the Union hadn't taken place. I just know that I wouldn't have the national humiliation of displaying my country's flag with another placed firmly on top of it, and the chance of telling the world that my country is peaceful, welcoming, and no threat at all to world peace. VoR

Keynes wrote:
BBC - Blair\'s Brainwashing Company Eric Evans in BBC History! WHO GAINED MOST WHEN SCOTLAND AND ENGLAND JOINED IN 1707? This title contains two lies: the proposition that either gained is a matter for debate and is not a fact, and the article is and can only be what happened after the Union which was enforced, not joined voluntarily as equals. The whole article goes on to assert that �There is powerful reason for believing the Scots gained more than they lost� but there is much more assertion than argument. The point however is that the question is not whether Scotland or England have gained or lost over the last 300 years, but whether either country would have been better off without the Union. The author is not thinking straight. My knowledge of history is very sketchy, but I do know that the potato famine of the 1840s and the Highland Clearances hit many Scots hard and they were largely the product of the actions of the Bank of England under the demands of Parliament in London. Germany and Belgium gained more from English and Scottish inventions in the 19th century than either of our two nations. Indeed by 1870 Germany had far outstripped Britain�s economy. Even after not a very brilliant government under the Kaiser, Germany was able to beat Russia and hold half of France and Flanders. Without an empire worth speaking about, Germany held at bay three nations whose empires were supposed to make them greater powers! In 1940 Germany beat all of Europe hollow.

Keynes,

Have a look at the article in yesterday's Scotsman by Prof Allan I MacInnes the Chair of History at Aberdeen University.

The common perception everyone appears to now believe is that Darien bust Scotland, and England in her mercy rode in to save the day. It is totally incorrect, in-so-far as England was as skint as a footballer�s knee, and the only people who lost money in Darien were the Scottish noble classes. The community of Scotland was no richer or poorer than it was before the venture. The new "British" solution to Scotland's noble ills was to raise all Taxes to English levels, and as the good Prof muses "The Scots were in effect agreeing to fund their own Union dividend." Another New History claim is that Scotland was donated access to English trading routes, which again is utter kakk. Scotland was not allowed to trade at all with the East Indies and had only very limited access to the Americas. The Union ended the trade Scotland enjoyed shipping English product to Europe because of our lower taxes, and the Scottish ports took a financial hammering until fine upstanding Scottish merchants discovered the pleasure of the previously English-dominated Slave Trade and made their fortunes building humungous stone epitaphs to themselves in the magnificent buildings that dominate the Glasgow skyline.

So from an 18th Century perspective, the Union did absolutely nothing for the average Scot or English. The Union gave England manpower for their continental and American wars, manufacturing, and expanding the Empire. The Union gave Scotland huge sums for its top earners and nobility, a top-3 place in the Slave Trade, and the political dominance of West Central Scotland which keeps the rest of us in thraldom.

But to the question you want answered: I haven't a clue. It's impossible to guess how 19th, 20th and 21st Century Scotland and England would be if the Union hadn't taken place.

I just know that I wouldn't have the national humiliation of displaying my country's flag with another placed firmly on top of it, and the chance of telling the world that my country is peaceful, welcoming, and no threat at all to world peace.

VoR

Jason4queen,

if the only insurance policy I could find:
- poisoned a part of my house for the rest of my life
- could, if misused, blow up my entire street
- required a signature from the guy in the posh villa across the village pond to use at all
- cost a huge amount of money better used fixing the plumbing and roof
- when activated, only allow me to burn the burglar/shoddy workman's house down in revenge

I don't think I'd sign up. Would you?

GOTCHA!!! Yesterday I was walking through East Kilbride when I bumped in to Alex Salmond and his campaigners Being a keen photographer I took a few snaps which put me in a good position to hear every word spoken between Mr.Salmond and a senior citizen who is portrayed as being glum and not impressed with Mr. salmond.This is a complete fabrication. Mr Salmond merely asked her where she got her specs The Lady did not want to say because of all the cameras Mr Salmond asked her to whisper the shops name to him. This raised a laugh amongst but not as big a laugh as when Alec tried her specs on as he looked a bit like Flash Gordon. So a bit of fun on a sunny day where as far as i could see the lady on page 2 of todays sun was charmed by Mr Salmond and delighted to chat with him I decided to post this to the herald after reading some excellent posts over the past fortnight. The Sun like most of Scotlands daily newspapers is guilty of trying to manipulate public opinion by telling us how to think and how to see. They even try to tell us how to vote but after looking at todays insulting image of a senior citizen I swear that I will never even look at that newspaper again never mind buy it. I am sick fed up of being lied to by the pro unionists if they lie about pictures of senior citizens then they will lie about anything.

[quote][bold]ptdoug[/bold] wrote: Guerilla marketing!!! Feck! with a diatribe like that you should be in Solidarity comrade. I have no problem with debate, Just the unimaginative cut and paste from the SNP manifesto. I've read it already, thanks. Give us some opinion, not a rerun of the manifesto, "Dude MR ANNOYED PERSON... None of what I wrote is cut'n'paste from the SNP Manifesto...as if !!! You haven't read it at all... have you dude? Come on ...be honest. No be a good boy and comment on the content..... the comment on Labours shocking record. Is there anything on that list that isn't true? If so.... tell us. I'll start you off. Do you deny the Labour Government, with their "best pal" in the world, George Bush.... ordered British forces to attack Iraq. And if you dont deny it.... you would surely agree that they, LABOUR, must accept responsibility for the 650,000 Iraqis killed as a direct result of Blairs reckless military adventure in the middle east.[/quote] PTDOUG now now. for one you are assuming I'm Mr. annoyed. I'm actually a Miss annoyed. so please, read the post properly (it was Me, annoyed- not Mr.) & dont jump to conclusions- thats not the sort of thing a caring sharing all encompassing SNP'er should do. (It is also my opinon that a party who touts their love of equality shouldn't take money from a homophobe bus driver or members of said party abstain from certain equality votes- But I'll let that one lie) Whats really annoying is that if I am against the SNP then I'm obviously FOR labour in your view. I didn't have a 'go' at the SNP as such. So there's no need to answer your questions. I totally agree with you - Labour have been crap too. But there are others. You're not having much success are you. Jumping to conclusions again. I hope the rest of the SNP'ers are a bit brighter. 'Dude'

ptdoug wrote:
Guerilla marketing!!! Feck! with a diatribe like that you should be in Solidarity comrade. I have no problem with debate, Just the unimaginative cut and paste from the SNP manifesto. I've read it already, thanks. Give us some opinion, not a rerun of the manifesto, "Dude MR ANNOYED PERSON... None of what I wrote is cut'n'paste from the SNP Manifesto...as if !!! You haven't read it at all... have you dude? Come on ...be honest. No be a good boy and comment on the content..... the comment on Labours shocking record. Is there anything on that list that isn't true? If so.... tell us. I'll start you off. Do you deny the Labour Government, with their "best pal" in the world, George Bush.... ordered British forces to attack Iraq. And if you dont deny it.... you would surely agree that they, LABOUR, must accept responsibility for the 650,000 Iraqis killed as a direct result of Blairs reckless military adventure in the middle east.

PTDOUG

now now. for one you are assuming I'm Mr. annoyed.
I'm actually a Miss annoyed. so please, read the post properly (it was Me, annoyed- not Mr.) & dont jump to conclusions- thats not the sort of thing a caring sharing all encompassing SNP'er should do.

(It is also my opinon that a party who touts their love of equality shouldn't take money from a homophobe bus driver or members of said party abstain from certain equality votes- But I'll let that one lie)

Whats really annoying is that if I am against the SNP then I'm obviously FOR labour in your view. I didn't have a 'go' at the SNP as such. So there's no need to answer your questions. I totally agree with you - Labour have been crap too. But there are others.

You're not having much success are you. Jumping to conclusions again.

I hope the rest of the SNP'ers are a bit brighter. 'Dude'

Voice of Reason

Thanks for that. I have had to defend the same on Guardian - perhaps you can help there too?

9:49 am
Your post reminds me of a funny thread that was running the other day when more and more ridiculous "for the union" groupings appeared.
I think it was something like

Orange Lodges for the Union
Rangers supporters clubs for the Union etc

My favourite one was ( and apologies if you don't fall into this category yourself )
" Like a lot of people I haven't decided how to cast my vote yet" for the Union.

[quote][bold]Joel[/bold] wrote: Where are these new polls? i really hope labour isn\'t in power again. It\'s such a depressing thought[/quote] We had a poll a few weeks ago putting labour in the lead I wouldn't read too much into these and someone said last night polls are often adjusted right before an election to assume most of the undecideds will vote for the governing party. Also the timing of these polls will not measure the impact of Sunday Papers backing the SNP and Gordon Brown's gaffe saying he won't work with Alex Salmond. That said on the STV leeaders debate last night, Jack McConnell got off VERY lightly over local taxation. Although he still seemed uneasy he did play to the cameras a wee bit better (not that he could have done worse than he did on Newsnight last week). I would be fairly certain the guy who claimed his local tax will double uner SNP or Lib Dem plans was planted in the audience. Either that or he is very wealthy and living in a lower council tax band house than he could afford to buy. If labour want to revise the Bands then alot more people will have their council tax doubled and middle income earners and pensioners will be hit hardest of all. Half of band A households get council tax benefit anyway. Just think about your vote people. Do you want another four years of Jack McConnell? I mean really, have a good think about that! If you don't like Salmond or the SNP, even if you think they are frauds, put them in power for four years and let them be exposed for it. The fact is if in the unlikely event an SNP administration does screw up, they won't have an overall majority so the other parties can always make a vote of no confidence and sack the executive. An SNP that failed in government would take a generation to rebuild credibility.

Joel wrote:
Where are these new polls? i really hope labour isn\'t in power again. It\'s such a depressing thought

We had a poll a few weeks ago putting labour in the lead I wouldn't read too much into these and someone said last night polls are often adjusted right before an election to assume most of the undecideds will vote for the governing party.

Also the timing of these polls will not measure the impact of Sunday Papers backing the SNP and Gordon Brown's gaffe saying he won't work with Alex Salmond.

That said on the STV leeaders debate last night, Jack McConnell got off VERY lightly over local taxation. Although he still seemed uneasy he did play to the cameras a wee bit better (not that he could have done worse than he did on Newsnight last week). I would be fairly certain the guy who claimed his local tax will double uner SNP or Lib Dem plans was planted in the audience. Either that or he is very wealthy and living in a lower council tax band house than he could afford to buy. If labour want to revise the Bands then alot more people will have their council tax doubled and middle income earners and pensioners will be hit hardest of all. Half of band A households get council tax benefit anyway.

Just think about your vote people. Do you want another four years of Jack McConnell? I mean really, have a good think about that!

If you don't like Salmond or the SNP, even if you think they are frauds, put them in power for four years and let them be exposed for it. The fact is if in the unlikely event an SNP administration does screw up, they won't have an overall majority so the other parties can always make a vote of no confidence and sack the executive. An SNP that failed in government would take a generation to rebuild credibility.

[quote][bold]Jason4queen[/bold] wrote: I have a question for all the SNP voters who are so against trident. Lets forget the cost for a moment although in my opinion it is a cost worth paying. But I also pay House insurance, car insurance, credit card insurance etc. And I hate paying them but would never dream of giving them up. Afterall that is exactly what trident is. It is insurance which shows the rogue states such as IRAN, NORTH KOREA. That they will never take over the world whilst democratic nations have the ability to fight back. I can hear the snide remarks coming back before I\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'ve even finished. But lets look at this in your wee dream world of a Nuclear free Scotland. Now, ( god forbid it ever happens). But lets say IRAN Or some other nation fires a Nuclear bomb at LONDON. Are you trying to tell me that the radiation and effects of the bomb will travel up through England and stop at the border, because Scotland gave up the weapons?. Are you really saying that allowing these nations to have weapons is ok, because they are all so nice and will give up their weapons when the west gives up theirs. Why was there 2 world wars within 21 years of each other, yet thankfully there hasnt been anything as bad since the Western world found the way to stop the likes of IRAN, or NORTH KOREA was build a weapon which will make them think twice. I feel safer with the trident.[/quote] [bold]Jason4queen[/bold] : your post is tosh, drivel, a verbal dose of the runs! Insurance, my a**e. The world came very close to a nuclear war in 1962. We were hours away, literally from armageddon. I mean the real thing. The fact that it didn't happen was only due to some wiser heads in the Kremlin prevailing. It could so easily have gone the other way. Now you can argue the rights and wrongs of why the USSR woud want to do such a provocative thing as to station nuclear weapons so close to the US, or why the US attempted to strangle the communist regime at birth, but the fact is that there has not been a conflict on the scale of the 2 world wars since 1945 [italic]despite[/italic] nuclear weapons not [italic]because[/italic] of them. I heard one of your cohort attempt to justify the same nonsense at a hustings in Aberdeen along much the same lines, i.e. "they're terrible, but they keep the peace" He then went on to say that they were so awful that it was no more or less immoral for one country to fire a nuclear weapon than another. I then put to him that he surely could not complain then, if Iran or North Korea posessed them. Do you know what his answer was? He attempted to say that this country will never use them (whereas others would.) When pointed out to him that $100 billion on something that was a) illegal and b) would never be used seemed an awful waste of money, he simply came out with the same line, i.e. they're terrible but they keep the peace. More seriously however, when pointed out to him that Geoff Hoon had indeed outlined scenarios where Britain would use its nuclear weapons, and that this was recorded in Hansard, he squirmed like only those do who are lying, know they are lying, have just been found out and their lies exposed to the glare of publicity. The Conservative candidate had the honesty to admit that the UK had no grounds for complaint if the 2 regimes in question now developed nuclear warheads, which is more than Labour will ever do. So, in answer to your question, by your logic, if the nuclear weapons make the UK a safer place, they must, by definition, make Iran and North Korea a safer place. Insurance, you see? The sooner we are rid of New Labour, Trident, and all the aggressive wars that go along with the Blair-Brown "Project" the better.

Jason4queen wrote:
I have a question for all the SNP voters who are so against trident. Lets forget the cost for a moment although in my opinion it is a cost worth paying. But I also pay House insurance, car insurance, credit card insurance etc. And I hate paying them but would never dream of giving them up. Afterall that is exactly what trident is. It is insurance which shows the rogue states such as IRAN, NORTH KOREA. That they will never take over the world whilst democratic nations have the ability to fight back. I can hear the snide remarks coming back before I\\\\\\\\\\\\'ve even finished. But lets look at this in your wee dream world of a Nuclear free Scotland. Now, ( god forbid it ever happens). But lets say IRAN Or some other nation fires a Nuclear bomb at LONDON. Are you trying to tell me that the radiation and effects of the bomb will travel up through England and stop at the border, because Scotland gave up the weapons?. Are you really saying that allowing these nations to have weapons is ok, because they are all so nice and will give up their weapons when the west gives up theirs. Why was there 2 world wars within 21 years of each other, yet thankfully there hasnt been anything as bad since the Western world found the way to stop the likes of IRAN, or NORTH KOREA was build a weapon which will make them think twice. I feel safer with the trident.

Jason4queen : your post is tosh, drivel, a verbal dose of the runs! Insurance, my a**e. The world came very close to a nuclear war in 1962. We were hours away, literally from armageddon. I mean the real thing. The fact that it didn't happen was only due to some wiser heads in the Kremlin prevailing. It could so easily have gone the other way. Now you can argue the rights and wrongs of why the USSR woud want to do such a provocative thing as to station nuclear weapons so close to the US, or why the US attempted to strangle the communist regime at birth, but the fact is that there has not been a conflict on the scale of the 2 world wars since 1945 despite nuclear weapons not because of them. I heard one of your cohort attempt to justify the same nonsense at a hustings in Aberdeen along much the same lines, i.e. "they're terrible, but they keep the peace" He then went on to say that they were so awful that it was no more or less immoral for one country to fire a nuclear weapon than another. I then put to him that he surely could not complain then, if Iran or North Korea posessed them. Do you know what his answer was? He attempted to say that this country will never use them (whereas others would.) When pointed out to him that $100 billion on something that was a) illegal and b) would never be used seemed an awful waste of money, he simply came out with the same line, i.e. they're terrible but they keep the peace. More seriously however, when pointed out to him that Geoff Hoon had indeed outlined scenarios where Britain would use its nuclear weapons, and that this was recorded in Hansard, he squirmed like only those do who are lying, know they are lying, have just been found out and their lies exposed to the glare of publicity. The Conservative candidate had the honesty to admit that the UK had no grounds for complaint if the 2 regimes in question now developed nuclear warheads, which is more than Labour will ever do.

So, in answer to your question, by your logic, if the nuclear weapons make the UK a safer place, they must, by definition, make Iran and North Korea a safer place. Insurance, you see?

The sooner we are rid of New Labour, Trident, and all the aggressive wars that go along with the Blair-Brown "Project" the better.

FINAL POLL OF POLLS: LABOUR FOUR SHORT TO FORM MAJORITY COALITION --- www.ScotlandVotes.com shows SNP 5 seats ahead and able to form a wafer thin coalition majority with the Lib Dems --- The day before Scotland votes and Weber Shandwick's latest Poll of Polls predicts that the SNP would be the largest party in the parliament with 48 seats. However, Labour is only five seats behind on 43. With the Lib Dems projected to pick up 18 seats, only the SNP would be in a position to form a majority coalition with them. However, historically the opinion polls are notoriously poor at picking up votes for the minor parties and independents therefore the actual result could be much closer. Any gains for the smaller parties are most likely to impact the SNP. For the constituency vote the poll puts Labour on 31%, SNP on 36%, Conservatives on 13%, and Liberal Democrats on 15%. For the regional vote Labour are on 28%, SNP on 32%, Conservatives and Liberal Democrats on 13%, Green Party on 5% and SSP on 2%. Other parties pick up 5% on the constituency and 6% on the regional vote. Using Weber Shandwick's election predictor, this poll of polls would see 43 Labour MSPs, 48 SNP, 16 Conservatives 18 Liberal Democrats, and 4 for the Greens. Weber Shandwick director of public affairs Moray Macdonald said: �On the eve of the election there appears to be a slight tightening of the gap between the SNP and Labour. With the vote looking close two things will be crucial. �Firstly, the SNP need to make good constituency gains and they need to win seats outwith the projected swing including Gordon and Glasgow Kelvin. �Secondly, the smaller parties will play a vital role. If the Greens, SSP or independents do even slightly better than this poll suggests then that could have a major impact on which party has the most seats. "The result tomorrow will rely on the ability of Labour and the SNP to get their vote out in the key constituencies. There is no doubt it will be worth staying up until the early hours of Friday morning to see what happens in seats like East Kilbride, Gordon, Paisley South and Livingston. �The performance of the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats will also be important. If the Tories manage to make gains in any of their target seats, this is most likely to dent Labour. In seats like Edinburgh Central the SNP and Liberals are both fighting to take the seat from Labour. The result there could be decisive for the whole country. "With the poll looking this close I would urge everyone on Thursday to go out and cast their vote. This time your vote really could make a difference."

FINAL POLL OF POLLS: LABOUR FOUR SHORT TO FORM MAJORITY COALITION

--- www.ScotlandVotes.com shows SNP 5 seats ahead and able to form a wafer thin coalition majority with the Lib Dems ---

The day before Scotland votes and Weber Shandwick's latest Poll of Polls predicts that the SNP would be the largest party in the parliament with 48 seats. However, Labour is only five seats behind on 43.

With the Lib Dems projected to pick up 18 seats, only the SNP would be in a position to form a majority coalition with them.

However, historically the opinion polls are notoriously poor at picking up votes for the minor parties and independents therefore the actual result could be much closer. Any gains for the smaller parties are most likely to impact the SNP.

For the constituency vote the poll puts Labour on 31%, SNP on 36%, Conservatives on 13%, and Liberal Democrats on 15%. For the regional vote Labour are on 28%, SNP on 32%, Conservatives and Liberal Democrats on 13%, Green Party on 5% and SSP on 2%. Other parties pick up 5% on the constituency and 6% on the regional vote.

Using Weber Shandwick's election predictor, this poll of polls would see 43 Labour MSPs, 48 SNP, 16 Conservatives 18 Liberal Democrats, and 4 for the Greens.

Weber Shandwick director of public affairs Moray Macdonald said: �On the eve of the election there appears to be a slight tightening of the gap between the SNP and Labour. With the vote looking close two things will be crucial.

�Firstly, the SNP need to make good constituency gains and they need to win seats outwith the projected swing including Gordon and Glasgow Kelvin.

�Secondly, the smaller parties will play a vital role. If the Greens, SSP or independents do even slightly better than this poll suggests then that could have a major impact on which party has the most seats.

"The result tomorrow will rely on the ability of Labour and the SNP to get their vote out in the key constituencies. There is no doubt it will be worth staying up until the early hours of Friday morning to see what happens in seats like East Kilbride, Gordon, Paisley South and Livingston.

�The performance of the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats will also be important. If the Tories manage to make gains in any of their target seats, this is most likely to dent Labour. In seats like Edinburgh Central the SNP and Liberals are both fighting to take the seat from Labour. The result there could be decisive for the whole country.

"With the poll looking this close I would urge everyone on Thursday to go out and cast their vote. This time your vote really could make a difference."

Ian talks sense--give the S.N.P. a chance and if, after four years, they screw up like the present incumbents, throw them out at the ballot box . What could be fairer than that, thank the Lord all this vitriolic nonsense is coming to an end tomorrow.

Well - the mass media has done it's best for the Union - and helped perpetuate Labour spin and lies to a large degree. Let's pray the Scots see through it all for once and vote for their Scottish Party - on a Scottish election. God knows, the country will be better for it when Blair and Brown and co. scuttle back to Westminster for the duration. Which is, by the way, what they intend on doing anyway - if they win. Gordon: '...job done...I'll come back here in a few years and bang-on about how important Scotland is again...' Honestly, he's like some foppish late-Stewart monarch. Clearly, he has his own priorities - and it's not the nation of Scotland! Once more - for old time's sake: - Iraq? - Cash for honours? - Pensions wreck? - Alienated trade unions? - Increasingly low-school rating cards? - Absurd 'Faslane spin?' - Ripping the heart out our regiments - Labour's foretold Al Qaeda attack? - Labour's 'Social ties between Scotland and England dissolving?' - The wholly risible [Brown] comment on 'The 'Balkanisation' of the UK? - Increased Govan poverty? - Reiterated, tired pledges? - Phoney party political broadcasts with ex-Labour officials? - *Alarming* control of the mass media in Scotland?? - The absolute stagnant economic position after eight-years of Lab-Lib govt.? I, for one - have my anti-spin goggles on. I urge every Scot to see through the Labour spin, fabrication and lies. Get this unimaginative, immoral, '...Scotland cannae dae that...' shower of Labour numpties out! Labour = Scottish voters SNP = Scottish voters Labour = policies for the larger British state SNP = policies for Scotland It's really that simple. This election is NOT about independence. It IS about a referendum choice. Despite Labour's abhorrent, nauseating desire to scare her own people, the only thing you need to be scared of is your own will.

Well - the mass media has done it's best for the Union - and helped perpetuate Labour spin and lies to a large degree.

Let's pray the Scots see through it all for once and vote for their Scottish Party - on a Scottish election.

God knows, the country will be better for it when Blair and Brown and co. scuttle back to Westminster for the duration.

Which is, by the way, what they intend on doing anyway - if they win.

Gordon:

'...job done...I'll come back here in a few years and bang-on about how important Scotland is again...'

Honestly, he's like some foppish late-Stewart monarch. Clearly, he has his own priorities - and it's not the nation of Scotland!

Once more - for old time's sake:

- Iraq?
- Cash for honours?
- Pensions wreck?
- Alienated trade unions?
- Increasingly low-school rating cards?
- Absurd 'Faslane spin?'
- Ripping the heart out our regiments
- Labour's foretold Al Qaeda attack?
- Labour's 'Social ties between Scotland and England dissolving?'
- The wholly risible comment on 'The 'Balkanisation' of the UK?
- Increased Govan poverty?
- Reiterated, tired pledges?
- Phoney party political broadcasts with ex-Labour officials?
- *Alarming* control of the mass media in Scotland??
- The absolute stagnant economic position after eight-years of Lab-Lib govt.?

I, for one - have my anti-spin goggles on. I urge every Scot to see through the Labour spin, fabrication and lies.

Get this unimaginative, immoral, '...Scotland cannae dae that...' shower of Labour numpties out!

Labour = Scottish voters
SNP = Scottish voters

Labour = policies for the larger British state
SNP = policies for Scotland

It's really that simple.

This election is NOT about independence.

It IS about a referendum choice.

Despite Labour's abhorrent, nauseating desire to scare her own people, the only thing you need to be scared of is your own will.

Jason4queen wrote:
I have a question for all the SNP voters who are so against trident. Lets forget the cost for a moment although in my opinion it is a cost worth paying. But I also pay House insurance, car insurance, credit card insurance etc. And I hate paying them but would never dream of giving them up. Afterall that is exactly what trident is. It is insurance which shows the rogue states such as IRAN, NORTH KOREA. That they will never take over the world whilst democratic nations have the ability to fight back. I can hear the snide remarks coming back before I\'ve even finished. But lets look at this in your wee dream world of a Nuclear free Scotland. Now, ( god forbid it ever happens). But lets say IRAN Or some other nation fires a Nuclear bomb at LONDON. Are you trying to tell me that the radiation and effects of the bomb will travel up through England and stop at the border, because Scotland gave up the weapons?. Are you really saying that allowing these nations to have weapons is ok, because they are all so nice and will give up their weapons when the west gives up theirs. Why was there 2 world wars within 21 years of each other, yet thankfully there hasnt been anything as bad since the Western world found the way to stop the likes of IRAN, or NORTH KOREA was build a weapon which will make them think twice. I feel safer with the trident.

Glad you feel safer with Trident, but do you honestly think westminster would be allowed to press the button?

The decision will be with America, so let them own and run it.

Someone will hopefully correct me if I am wrong, but the Herald (or Scotsman) did not report the Adam Smith Institute's report which to quote their website concluded:

"The Scottish economy could enjoy record growth if Scotland became independent, leaving the average Scot many thousands of pounds better off each year. "
http://www.adamsmith.org/index.php/main/individual/independent_scotland_a_road_to_riches/

They do however report above that
"An independent think tank, The National Institute of Economic and Social Research cast doubts on the SNP plans to boost Scottish economic growth."

I do not put to much store by think tank reports anyway - they are only opinions after all - but this looks like yet more blatant unionist bias from the Herald.

[quote][bold]Alastair[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Jason4queen[/bold] wrote: I have a question for all the SNP voters who are so against trident. Lets forget the cost for a moment although in my opinion it is a cost worth paying. But I also pay House insurance, car insurance, credit card insurance etc. And I hate paying them but would never dream of giving them up. Afterall that is exactly what trident is. It is insurance which shows the rogue states such as IRAN, NORTH KOREA. That they will never take over the world whilst democratic nations have the ability to fight back. I can hear the snide remarks coming back before I\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'ve even finished. But lets look at this in your wee dream world of a Nuclear free Scotland. Now, ( god forbid it ever happens). But lets say IRAN Or some other nation fires a Nuclear bomb at LONDON. Are you trying to tell me that the radiation and effects of the bomb will travel up through England and stop at the border, because Scotland gave up the weapons?. Are you really saying that allowing these nations to have weapons is ok, because they are all so nice and will give up their weapons when the west gives up theirs. Why was there 2 world wars within 21 years of each other, yet thankfully there hasnt been anything as bad since the Western world found the way to stop the likes of IRAN, or NORTH KOREA was build a weapon which will make them think twice. I feel safer with the trident.[/quote] [bold]Jason4queen[/bold] : your post is tosh, drivel, a verbal dose of the runs! Insurance, my a**e. The world came very close to a nuclear war in 1962. We were hours away, literally from armageddon. I mean the real thing. The fact that it didn't happen was only due to some wiser heads in the Kremlin prevailing. It could so easily have gone the other way. Now you can argue the rights and wrongs of why the USSR woud want to do such a provocative thing as to station nuclear weapons so close to the US, or why the US attempted to strangle the communist regime at birth, but the fact is that there has not been a conflict on the scale of the 2 world wars since 1945 [italic]despite[/italic] nuclear weapons not [italic]because[/italic] of them. I heard one of your cohort attempt to justify the same nonsense at a hustings in Aberdeen along much the same lines, i.e. "they're terrible, but they keep the peace" He then went on to say that they were so awful that it was no more or less immoral for one country to fire a nuclear weapon than another. I then put to him that he surely could not complain then, if Iran or North Korea posessed them. Do you know what his answer was? He attempted to say that this country will never use them (whereas others would.) When pointed out to him that $100 billion on something that was a) illegal and b) would never be used seemed an awful waste of money, he simply came out with the same line, i.e. they're terrible but they keep the peace. More seriously however, when pointed out to him that Geoff Hoon had indeed outlined scenarios where Britain would use its nuclear weapons, and that this was recorded in Hansard, he squirmed like only those do who are lying, know they are lying, have just been found out and their lies exposed to the glare of publicity. The Conservative candidate had the honesty to admit that the UK had no grounds for complaint if the 2 regimes in question now developed nuclear warheads, which is more than Labour will ever do. So, in answer to your question, by your logic, if the nuclear weapons make the UK a safer place, they must, by definition, make Iran and North Korea a safer place. Insurance, you see? The sooner we are rid of New Labour, Trident, and all the aggressive wars that go along with the Blair-Brown "Project" the better. [/quote] "The sooner we are rid of New Labour, Trident, and all the aggressive wars that go along with the Blair-Brown "Project" the better." ...... The Blair-**** project!

Alastair wrote:

Jason4queen wrote: I have a question for all the SNP voters who are so against trident. Lets forget the cost for a moment although in my opinion it is a cost worth paying. But I also pay House insurance, car insurance, credit card insurance etc. And I hate paying them but would never dream of giving them up. Afterall that is exactly what trident is. It is insurance which shows the rogue states such as IRAN, NORTH KOREA. That they will never take over the world whilst democratic nations have the ability to fight back. I can hear the snide remarks coming back before I\\\\\\\\\\\\'ve even finished. But lets look at this in your wee dream world of a Nuclear free Scotland. Now, ( god forbid it ever happens). But lets say IRAN Or some other nation fires a Nuclear bomb at LONDON. Are you trying to tell me that the radiation and effects of the bomb will travel up through England and stop at the border, because Scotland gave up the weapons?. Are you really saying that allowing these nations to have weapons is ok, because they are all so nice and will give up their weapons when the west gives up theirs. Why was there 2 world wars within 21 years of each other, yet thankfully there hasnt been anything as bad since the Western world found the way to stop the likes of IRAN, or NORTH KOREA was build a weapon which will make them think twice. I feel safer with the trident.
Jason4queen : your post is tosh, drivel, a verbal dose of the runs! Insurance, my a**e. The world came very close to a nuclear war in 1962. We were hours away, literally from armageddon. I mean the real thing. The fact that it didn't happen was only due to some wiser heads in the Kremlin prevailing. It could so easily have gone the other way. Now you can argue the rights and wrongs of why the USSR woud want to do such a provocative thing as to station nuclear weapons so close to the US, or why the US attempted to strangle the communist regime at birth, but the fact is that there has not been a conflict on the scale of the 2 world wars since 1945 despite nuclear weapons not because of them. I heard one of your cohort attempt to justify the same nonsense at a hustings in Aberdeen along much the same lines, i.e. "they're terrible, but they keep the peace" He then went on to say that they were so awful that it was no more or less immoral for one country to fire a nuclear weapon than another. I then put to him that he surely could not complain then, if Iran or North Korea posessed them. Do you know what his answer was? He attempted to say that this country will never use them (whereas others would.) When pointed out to him that $100 billion on something that was a) illegal and b) would never be used seemed an awful waste of money, he simply came out with the same line, i.e. they're terrible but they keep the peace. More seriously however, when pointed out to him that Geoff Hoon had indeed outlined scenarios where Britain would use its nuclear weapons, and that this was recorded in Hansard, he squirmed like only those do who are lying, know they are lying, have just been found out and their lies exposed to the glare of publicity. The Conservative candidate had the honesty to admit that the UK had no grounds for complaint if the 2 regimes in question now developed nuclear warheads, which is more than Labour will ever do. So, in answer to your question, by your logic, if the nuclear weapons make the UK a safer place, they must, by definition, make Iran and North Korea a safer place. Insurance, you see? The sooner we are rid of New Labour, Trident, and all the aggressive wars that go along with the Blair-Brown "Project" the better.

"The sooner we are rid of New Labour, Trident, and all the aggressive wars that go along with the Blair-Brown "Project" the better." ......

The Blair-**** project!

Well we're down to the last few hours, and I have to say its been a pleasure sharing my postings with you. The National Institute Of Economic, And Social Research has doubts about the SNP's spending commitments, but didn't tell us of its links with Labour, and in particular Gordon Brown who wants the SNP to lose the election, and in the process acting like a prized ****. Maybe the dodgy polls published in today's Scotsman, and Times newspapers should come up with something as they show the impression of a late surge for Labour, because thats what the Labour party want us to see, and its misleading voters, and Gordon Brown, and that other ****, Jack McConnell don't seem to care. The ICM, and Populus polls published today are misleading, and smacks of Labour involvment to give the illusion that they are clawing back support when in reality they aren't. The 1014 people that were surveyed either were 200 Labour sympathisers posing as 600 to 650 other callers making repeated calls to give the impression of a Labour surge when clearly this is not the case. A classic Labour deception, and anyone with any intellegence would have spotted it. I wonder how Robbie Coltraine feels now backing a party willing to deceive, and manipulate the political process for its own ends. Oh! Hagrid, you poor b*****d. I almost feel sorry for you.

Well we're down to the last few hours, and I have to say its been a pleasure sharing my postings with you. The National Institute Of Economic, And Social Research has doubts about the SNP's spending commitments, but didn't tell us of its links with Labour, and in particular Gordon Brown who wants the SNP to lose the election, and in the process acting like a prized ****.

Maybe the dodgy polls published in today's Scotsman, and Times newspapers should come up with something as they show the impression of a late surge for Labour, because thats what the Labour party want us to see, and its misleading voters, and Gordon Brown, and that other ****, Jack McConnell don't seem to care. The ICM, and Populus polls published today are misleading, and smacks of Labour involvment to give the illusion that they are clawing back support when in reality they aren't.

The 1014 people that were surveyed either were 200 Labour sympathisers posing as 600 to 650 other callers making repeated calls to give the impression of a Labour surge when clearly this is not the case. A classic Labour deception, and anyone with any intellegence would have spotted it.

I wonder how Robbie Coltraine feels now backing a party willing to deceive, and manipulate the political process for its own ends. Oh! Hagrid, you poor b*****d. I almost feel sorry for you.

My post at 12:07. The word deleted was
b!tch...the Blairb!tch project.

All SNP activists:

One can only hope exciting, proactive, inclusive ideologies can indeed settle in with an SNP govt.

It's a sad state of affairs when you question the moral right of those to rule. Labour have no right - no mandate - in that respect.

I'd advise all SNP activists to visit this site and print the poster.

Home PC/printer? Copy the picture to your 'puter. Print them - dozens of them - hang them up where they can be seen. Hang them near the crucial polling houses. Hang them everywhere...

...and then we can hang this bunch of Labour numpties out to dry.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/endlabourlies/

See through the labour lies and spin Scotland! SNP for a return to democracy...

For goodness sake would everyone relax. The only poll that matters is the one tommorow.

B liar will walk away with a life pension of �62,000. He will not have contributed 1p towards this. Brown is looking to his future and will get the same pension as B liar even after 2 years as the UK Prime Minister. Just wondering how this equates with 25% of Scottish children in poverty, thousands with the minimum wage trying to pay council tax, pensioners in poverty choosing to eat or heat their homes and still paying council tax and young families living in damp overcrowded housing. Well done Labour.

Argentocoxus wrote:
Jason4queen & Trident Don't worry princess, if a nucleur bomb strikes Patna there'll no be much damage. That's already been done by 50 years of Labour domination.

If a nuclear bomb strikes Patna it will cause millions of pounds worth of improvements.

Just a small comment to all the people who are convinced that Scottish self-determination would mean, as �Darryl Matheson, Elgin, Morayshire� put it, �tax, turmoil and constitutional chaos.� Watch the Al Gore film An Inconvenient truth. Gore basically states that from a random sample of something like 3000 scientific journals, every single one of them is in agreement that global warming is occurring. Yet, a random sample of 3000 popular science publications yields a near 50-50 divide in opinions about the reality of global warming. Why are you reading about Al Gore and global warming on a Scottish politics forum you might ask? Well, the principal is the same. It is quite clear that Westminster want to hold onto the real Jewel of the Empire, otherwise how would they fund their little excursions into other sovereign nations with similar natural resources to Scotland? Anyway, on your way to vote tomorrow just remember: [italic]�Doctors smoke Camels�[/italic] .

Just a small comment to all the people who are convinced that Scottish self-determination would mean, as �Darryl Matheson, Elgin, Morayshire� put it, �tax, turmoil and constitutional chaos.� Watch the Al Gore film An Inconvenient truth. Gore basically states that from a random sample of something like 3000 scientific journals, every single one of them is in agreement that global warming is occurring. Yet, a random sample of 3000 popular science publications yields a near 50-50 divide in opinions about the reality of global warming.

Why are you reading about Al Gore and global warming on a Scottish politics forum you might ask? Well, the principal is the same. It is quite clear that Westminster want to hold onto the real Jewel of the Empire, otherwise how would they fund their little excursions into other sovereign nations with similar natural resources to Scotland?

Anyway, on your way to vote tomorrow just remember: �Doctors smoke Camels� .

Brilliant. Alan Smart i think this link to youtube should have been used for the snp election broadcast. EVERYONE SHOULD SEE IT BLOODY BRILLIANT

The SNP has ran a positive campaign and the Scottish people have responded. It reveals a sparked vigour in the Scottish voters as they determine to look into the future and ensure a bright future for us all. The argument has been won on the logic of economics, prosperity, and use of resources. The election is still up for grabs but I believe the Scottish people have retained the bravery and intelligence for which they are revered all over the world. I also detect a renewed pride in the country that has given the world so much and embraced other cultures and shared in learning and understanding. It is proper and good for a people to have pride in the place they live and the place their fore-fathers hoped to fashion as a great place in the world. I am glad that some of the drier arguments of this election has been combined with the proper and timeless concerns of humans that want to find pride in their own identity and place. The SNP meet these timeless concerns and aim to ensure the Scottish people are no longer demeaned as a supposedly subsidised people. The SNP hope to unite this country and we can build a great society together for future generations. I have my fingers crossed for the SNP on May 3rd and I hope the largest party is the SNP and it is the largest party who form the Executive.

The SNP has ran a positive campaign and the Scottish people have responded. It reveals a sparked vigour in the Scottish voters as they determine to look into the future and ensure a bright future for us all. The argument has been won on the logic of economics, prosperity, and use of resources. The election is still up for grabs but I believe the Scottish people have retained the bravery and intelligence for which they are revered all over the world. I also detect a renewed pride in the country that has given the world so much and embraced other cultures and shared in learning and understanding. It is proper and good for a people to have pride in the place they live and the place their fore-fathers hoped to fashion as a great place in the world. I am glad that some of the drier arguments of this election has been combined with the proper and timeless concerns of humans that want to find pride in their own identity and place. The SNP meet these timeless concerns and aim to ensure the Scottish people are no longer demeaned as a supposedly subsidised people. The SNP hope to unite this country and we can build a great society together for future generations.

I have my fingers crossed for the SNP on May 3rd and I hope the largest party is the SNP and it is the largest party who form the Executive.

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