The Herald Election Site

Alex Fergusson's elevation to Presiding Officer at Holyrood, expected by a secret vote of MSPs this afternoon, would help Scottish Conservatives prove they are in with the devolution brickwork.

They have struggled to motivate their own membership into campaigning for seats in an institution the party had long opposed, making it all the harder to impress target voters. Mr Fergusson may have to give up his party loyalty to help counter that.

He joined the Tories only 12 years ago, claiming he had previously been sympathetic to devolution. The surge in his Tory vote in Galloway and Upper Nithsdale, rising from a majority of 99 over the SNP in 2003 to 3333 this month, shows signs of life in Scottish Toryism. Likewise in Roxburgh and Berwickshire, where John Lamont stunned LibDems by ousting former minister Euan Robson.

Add in Annabel Goldie's personal success in a campaign that projected her as a big personality and a straight-talker. Yesterday, she was claiming to have been first to see the potential for minority government, saying Tories are eager to work with the SNP administration on drugs policy and business rates.

But all this is to mask the true Scottish Conservative result on May 3. They hate to be told they have been flatlining for 10 years, but this was worse. The party went backwards, down by one seat in total, even losing ground in share of the regional vote to a new low below 14%.

The party failed to win Dumfries, its top target. Perth and North Tayside seats, which should have been next in line, instead saw SNP majorities grow. Councillor numbers were expected to go up much more under the proportional voting system, but they only rose from 122 to 143, including a meagre one in Glasgow.

While the leadership might prefer to avoid a post mortem, others are filling that vacuum, including a lively discussion on the ConservativeHome website, where there is support for a split of the Scottish Tories from the rest of Britain.

That idea has backing within David Cameron's leadership team at Westminster. It was leaked during the campaign, presumably by someone who thought, rightly, that the timing would ensure both Mr Cameron and Miss Goldie had to rubbish it.

But the idea won't go away so easily. Frustrated party activists want to confront the Scottish Conservatives as "a contaminated brand". While Mr Cameron is changing perceptions of Conservatism in England, the Scottish variety may be too damaged for that.

While Scottish Tories already have considerable autonomy, they want to make a clean break with the Westminster hierarchy.

Members would want to keep a vote in Westminster leadership contests. They are naturally conservative and unionist, as their membership cards would suggest, and a split goes against the grain for many. But being permanently out of government goes against the grain for Tories as well, and they need to find a route back from the wilderness that goes beyond hoping for the best.

What good would a split do? They'd still be Scottish Conservatives with the same desire to keep Scotland as British and dependent as ever but without any influence in the main Conservative Party. A sort of Lib-Dem lite party. I suppose they could call themselves the the Scottish New Unionist Faction Party, or the SNUF's for short. As for their chances, the name says it all.

What good would a split do? They'd still be Scottish Conservatives with the same desire to keep Scotland as British and dependent as ever but without any influence in the main Conservative Party. A sort of Lib-Dem lite party.

I suppose they could call themselves the the Scottish New Unionist Faction Party, or the SNUF's for short.

As for their chances, the name says it all.

Ironically only the genuine severing from London that Scottish independence would bring would allow the Tories to recover as a right wing Scottish party. They exist in any numbers at all because of devolution which has allowed PR, which they oppose(d), to save them. They truly are devoid of strategy.

I think the problem for the Tories in this election is they were squeezed by the SNP and Labour, the Lib-Dems did the same. Although I think what results like Edinburgh Pentlands, Galloway and upper Nithsdale and Eastwood show is that people are no longer ashamed to vote Tory, they made progress in most regions at constituency level where they increased their vote on most occasions particularly in the South and West which gives them something to build on next time perhaps taking at the very least the West Renfrewshire and Eastwood seats.

The fact that a split is even being considered suggests that the party are struggling to be seen as relevant to Scottish voters. During Margaret Thatcher's and John Major's periods in office, the Tories were very strongly branded as a party with English nationalist sympathies. David Cameron's Tories seem set to continue in this mould. The Scottish Conservatives cannot form an identity of their own with this other identity looming large over them. A split might see them supporting more powers for the parliament and arguing for greater fiscal autonomy, without clashing with Tory aspirations down south. Interestingly, this problem might not be a uniquely Tory one. The Lib Dems are also struggling, despite their alleged federal structure, to be seen as independent of the influence of the party at Westminster. There have been suggestions recently that Ming Campbell has forced their position at Holyrood. And since the assemblies for the north of England were dismissed by voters, it seems federalism is an idea whose time has not yet come, at least in England. It might just be that where we are in our political development as a nation is a challenge to all of the unionist parties. Polling evidence has suggested a majority of voters want more powers for Holyrood. The Lib Dems may not yet think they have a problem with their identity in Scotland but a year or so in opposition might lead to them rethinking how they can make themselves relevant to Scottish voters. Maybe a split would do them a power of good? But really the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour all suffer from the same malaise; their Westminster colleagues don't want to be embarassed by suggestions of double standards. The political ideology amongst unionists is still 'one size fits all'.

The fact that a split is even being considered suggests that the party are struggling to be seen as relevant to Scottish voters. During Margaret Thatcher's and John Major's periods in office, the Tories were very strongly branded as a party with English nationalist sympathies. David Cameron's Tories seem set to continue in this mould. The Scottish Conservatives cannot form an identity of their own with this other identity looming large over them. A split might see them supporting more powers for the parliament and arguing for greater fiscal autonomy, without clashing with Tory aspirations down south.

Interestingly, this problem might not be a uniquely Tory one. The Lib Dems are also struggling, despite their alleged federal structure, to be seen as independent of the influence of the party at Westminster. There have been suggestions recently that Ming Campbell has forced their position at Holyrood. And since the assemblies for the north of England were dismissed by voters, it seems federalism is an idea whose time has not yet come, at least in England.

It might just be that where we are in our political development as a nation is a challenge to all of the unionist parties. Polling evidence has suggested a majority of voters want more powers for Holyrood. The Lib Dems may not yet think they have a problem with their identity in Scotland but a year or so in opposition might lead to them rethinking how they can make themselves relevant to Scottish voters. Maybe a split would do them a power of good? But really the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour all suffer from the same malaise; their Westminster colleagues don't want to be embarassed by suggestions of double standards. The political ideology amongst unionists is still 'one size fits all'.

Tories! Listen to Btian Menteith and get yourselves away from the corrosive influence of London. Either that or get used to the wilderness - ah the purity of the hermit.

Who are these Try activists who want a break? I don't know of any! And if your scour the discussion pages on Conservative Home you would see a majority (of Scottish Tories) against a split.

David Steel, educated George Watsons College George Reid, educated Dollar Academy Adam Fergusson, educated Eton Do you have to be a public schoolboy to hold this post? Margo - people friendly Hamilton Academy girl, just one of her many qualities That labour, SNP and Lib Dem MSPs might prefer an Eton educated Galloway Tory to Margo would be to their eternal shame. And the Holyrood guilty will be once more be popping the champagne corks - they'll have fixed an election as well as the bill. If you have any influence phone your MSP now ( vote 15.00) Tel 0131 348 5000

David Steel, educated George Watsons College
George Reid, educated Dollar Academy
Adam Fergusson, educated Eton

Do you have to be a public schoolboy to hold this post?

Margo - people friendly Hamilton Academy girl, just one of her many qualities

That labour, SNP and Lib Dem MSPs might prefer an Eton educated Galloway Tory to Margo would be to their eternal shame.

And the Holyrood guilty will be once more be popping the champagne corks - they'll have fixed an election as well as the bill.

If you have any influence phone your MSP now ( vote 15.00) Tel 0131 348 5000

Scottish Progressives, Scottish Unionists, Scottish Voice, North British Independents, call them what you like, they are still indigenous Conservatives by any other name, and are not to be trusted again with the governance of Scotland! The catalyst for the resurgence of Scottish Nationalism was the anti-Scottish stance of English Nationalist Thatcher, and her clones at the old Scottish Office, which has all but destroyed the indigenous Tory Party, and led to the end of Scottish Labour hegemony! Like the vast majority of Scots I am a Unionist, however, IF the indigenous Tories were ever allowed near the levers of power again then their refusal to acknowledge that Scotland is a unique nation, and their obssession with the out-dated Union, would undoubtedly drive more Unionist voters into the Nationalist camp with only one outcome: an independent sovereign Scottish State! Lachie Todd

[quote][bold]Alan Smart[/bold] wrote: David Steel, educated George Watsons College George Reid, educated Dollar Academy Adam Fergusson, educated Eton Do you have to be a public schoolboy to hold this post? Margo - people friendly Hamilton Academy girl, just one of her many qualities That labour, SNP and Lib Dem MSPs might prefer an Eton educated Galloway Tory to Margo would be to their eternal shame. And the Holyrood guilty will be once more be popping the champagne corks - they\'ll have fixed an election as well as the bill. If you have any influence phone your MSP now ( vote 15.00) Tel 0131 348 5000 [/quote] Dear Alan I think there is a secret unofficial campaign for keep Margo out of the post. I guess is down to her working class roots and views. She lost. Another possible example of not having the 'correct' status. Yours sincerely George Laird The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

Alan Smart wrote:
David Steel, educated George Watsons College George Reid, educated Dollar Academy Adam Fergusson, educated Eton Do you have to be a public schoolboy to hold this post? Margo - people friendly Hamilton Academy girl, just one of her many qualities That labour, SNP and Lib Dem MSPs might prefer an Eton educated Galloway Tory to Margo would be to their eternal shame. And the Holyrood guilty will be once more be popping the champagne corks - they\'ll have fixed an election as well as the bill. If you have any influence phone your MSP now ( vote 15.00) Tel 0131 348 5000

Dear Alan

I think there is a secret unofficial campaign for keep Margo out of the post.

I guess is down to her working class roots and views.

She lost.

Another possible example of not having the 'correct' status.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

George Laird - please explain then why the speaker in the Commons is a working class Glaswegian if there is such classist discrimination prevalent in our society as you seem to suggest.
I find your argument against meritocracy in this case decidedly weak!

Tories will have great difficulty in making a comeback in Scotland with big Dave's policies and peronna which are totally out of step with Scottish sentiment. A split now would allow him to put pressure on Brown over the west lothian question, play the english nationalism card which carries more weight than people would like you to believe. Bish bash bosh Tories back in number 10, cue revolt by labour Scotland to SNP and robert's your mother's brother Scotland is Independent. Labour out of power in England for the foreseeable future without Scottish MPs, a tactical masterstroke by the tories but have they got the kahunas to drop the 'unionist' from their title? well let me put it this way, does big Dave like rocket with his jellied eels?

Gregor Addison. What utter tripe. The idea that Menzies has been influencing the Scottish Lib Dems shows you havent got a scoob how the party works internally. Its not the Labour party where one guy can tell everyone else what to do. Its made up of a large numbe of individuals who I can assure you have been regularly canvassed for their views over the last week. The only influence that Menzies has had on the Scottish party is in the minds of the mad nats before the election and after the election. There is not a shred of evidence that Menzies has so much has lifted a finger to influence the party over this. There cant be - he hasnt. [bold]Stop making up mince.[/bold]

Gregor Addison. What utter tripe. The idea that Menzies has been influencing the Scottish Lib Dems shows you havent got a scoob how the party works internally. Its not the Labour party where one guy can tell everyone else what to do. Its made up of a large numbe of individuals who I can assure you have been regularly canvassed for their views over the last week.

The only influence that Menzies has had on the Scottish party is in the minds of the mad nats before the election and after the election. There is not a shred of evidence that Menzies has so much has lifted a finger to influence the party over this. There cant be - he hasnt. Stop making up mince.

Dr Blockbuster thinks that Sir Sean Connery should have come in as Presiding Officer ... that would have:

1) brought Sir Sean back to Scottish soil
2) kept the politicians from sitting on their a###s

If he had any real sympathy or love of Scotland, he would not need to be bribed to come back.

Some people seem to have the strangest idea that Sir Sean Connery actually likes this country. I just don't believe it and I am sick of him turning up during election times.

Nonsense. Sean Connery LOVES Scotland, but is fed up of cow-towing to the English that is all. He is merely objecting to his hard earned SCOTTISH cash going straight to Westminster without a bye or leave, that is all. He is not the only one.

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